Curse

Ensign · Feb 27, 2007, 09:30 AM // 09:30

The biggest glaring problem with that article is that he misspelled the word 'shitters' as 'PvErs'. There are plenty of shitters in PvP (think RA, AB) too, and they use those same skills for the same reasons. It wasn't an article explaining the differences between competitive PvP and competent PvE, but the differences between how decent PvP teams work and how that differs from what utter noobs do.

Yes, when you start talking about utter noobs and use the wide 'PvE' brush to describe that, you're going to insult a lot of people that you shouldn't be.

Peace,
-CxE

manitoba1073 · Feb 27, 2007, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by zakaria

Don't tell me that 10-12 years old kid playing PvP for free monthly subscription can ever understand the mechanics of PvE and making and modifying his build. Their ability to understand that become much less when they face the elitism in PvE.

Thought id fix that for you.

Tiny Killer · Feb 27, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Well, the article did not offend me as I view it along the lines of "If the shoe fits, wear it". What does bother me though, is the underlying sentiment that I must be an idiot because I do not PvP. That sentiment is not so much in that article, per se', but taken as truth by (in my opinion) the majority of the PvP community. To me, that is the obstacle to getting involved in PvP.

On a much funnier note, this line:

Quote:

Good luck making the transition from killing monsters to killing people.

had me rolling on the floor. The lad seems to have confused a fantasy game with real life. Go figure. Last time I checked, killing people does not pay very well but the graphics sure are better.

moepion · Feb 27, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

i'm a pver and i'm interested in playing pvp, but this article didn't help me very much.
a guide with infos about getting started in pvp, creating pvp chars, gaining and spending faction, different kind of arenas and so on would be really great and not a 1 page article about a few skills.
somebody who thinks that he would help a pvp-newbie with this article should check his brain.
this article is an insult to everybody who wants to get started in pvp.

Skuld · Feb 27, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

I agree with Ensign 100%.

SirJackassIII · Feb 27, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The biggest glaring problem with that article is that he misspelled the word 'shitters' as 'PvErs'. There are plenty of shitters in PvP (think RA, AB) too, and they use those same skills for the same reasons. It wasn't an article explaining the differences between competitive PvP and competent PvE, but the differences between how decent PvP teams work and how that differs from what utter noobs do.

Yes, when you start talking about utter noobs and use the wide 'PvE' brush to describe that, you're going to insult a lot of people that you shouldn't be.

Peace,
-CxE

I'm gonna quote this for thruth and hope Anet never places such articles on their main website again.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 27, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

I am an avid PvE player but I have tried playing PvP at some point just to see. I didn't like it for a couple of reasons:

- random arena's, while allowing for any class to join in it also means teams are random and that has big problems. You are not at all in control of what your team does and you have a lot of leavers because they don't think they can win with a certain team build.

-beyond the random arena's - well, you can pick your team now but since only certain builds are wanted only certain character classes will be accepted and only with certain specific builds....the fact that there are so many char classes who are basically out of the PvP game makes it kinda lame. Only certain classes with certain builds = boring to me.

Whereas I love CTF in games like Unreal, it's ill yto me in fantasy settings...in the random arena's I've never played a CTF game that actually was about the flag...it still turns into a team deathmatch...

I would like a one on one arena...now that would be fun...even if it's just at the guild hall.

This article has addressed none of my concerns and has therefore not given me one reason to go try PvP again...and the content seems to be based on a lot of assumptions about PvE....certainly doesn't describe my palying style

Silk Weaver · Feb 27, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I actually didn't think the articles was that bad. Sure, it's a bit out of touch in that Remove Hex in an MoR is pro, and some builds run Hard Rezes without fastcast or gluph ([SCC]).. sometimes, and mending and such aren't "hailed" as anything great by the majority. Oh, they aren't rare, but if you get into a group in PvE, see someone use mending and click while holding down ctrl...

Some Guy(1) is using mending on Some Guy!
Some Guy(1) is using mending on Some Guy!
Some Guy(1) is using mending on Some Guy!

A few or at least one person will go "wtf" or "lol". So you know not everyone's an idiot, as Ensign and a few others have said. However, the article isn't really that bad, it's in the right direction, and it's not like anyone reading it will suffer from any delusions by writing broad, not overly accurate statements. So I've nothing against the article.

As for tanking. See, if you send a guy in with MAYBE endure, but perhaps sprint, or even escape, or just some prot first in PvE, while casters stay our of aggro range while casting, monks especially (aggro range is less than wand/cast range), the "tank" can usually waste the first few, possibly energy intensive spells from the AIs first. For example, MS gets casted on a tank who, seeing that, runs to another area first, so the MS is out of way, or, another example, SF and other AoE spells is used on him, away from the group, yay, they waste energy, your other guys own them.

Some differences in PvE and PvP is the ability to abuse AI stupidity (like you abuse human stupidity sometimes in PvP... I dunnno, cancel casting? Something like that). For example, using a 55 Famine. Normal players will NOT keep attacking. Another difference is that you can adapt your build to the PvE, as you know who you're against. ie. The Deep/Urgoz Warren/DoA.

Also, in general, PvE mobs sometimes bring AoE. They are like Ele Ball, where everyone has Heal Area and Wards of Stability/Melee/Elements. A good team can crack them, but damn annoying. This means that having frontline as the main source of damage as a lot of PvP does, wouldn't be as viable. Oh, it still works, but not as fast. AoE is by no means effective in killing human players, but that you can't just have 6 warriors bash the hell out of the mobs because they decide to deepfreeze/SF/Ancestors'Rage (from a Boss, no less, so double damage) makes it much easier to just spam SF/MS or use Barrage.

That said, organized PvE in GW isn't that common. Vent is used sometimes, but not really that much so compared to, for example, WoW. Really, if I could make a Splinter Barrage team in PvE, that'd be kickass. But is that going to happen?

"Safage shot? Wuts that? I don't have skill."

GG? Okay, someone said he's going to use WoH. Why on earth does he have healing breeze? And did he just rebirth me? Mid-battle? Well that's smart.

FYI, I'm a pretty decent PvE and PvP player, and I actually know quite a few good/decent PvP players who do all kinds of PvE stuff, quoting vebratim "chest running, D2/WoW to farm phat loot". I like to look sexy when I eventually get on TV more often. More importantly, what do I do to distract me from History papers when there are no GvGs? Time to trap DoA.

Also, to the above. GvG is a lot about morale, and the flag can sometimes become very important, and use see Bull's Charge, Freezing Gust, Water Trident and such come into play, keeping that runner knocked down so he can't cap.

What will Thom do if he gets chosen? Flagrunning!

dgb · Feb 27, 2007, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

-beyond the random arena's - well, you can pick your team now but since only certain builds are wanted only certain character classes will be accepted and only with certain specific builds....the fact that there are so many char classes who are basically out of the PvP game makes it kinda lame. Only certain classes with certain builds = boring to me.

This is something that I see a lot - the difference between PVP and PVE here is that the opposition is doing their damn best to kill you in PVP - in PVE it's more a mediocre lets put up some fight. Using varied builds in PVP inevitably leads you to substandard builds, which leads to them failing to win, in PVE it just means that it takes a little longer to finish a mission.

DIH49 · Feb 27, 2007, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Yes, when you start talking about utter noobs and use the wide 'PvE' brush to describe that, you're going to insult a lot of people that you shouldn't be.

This is unfair Ensign. Adam didn't say all PvErs do anything. He said many do, and that of the PvE population there are some common mistakes. The kind of PvEr he is referring to is in fact probably best described by the word "many;" I certainly seem to see this sort of thing all the time in alliance battles, something I do every day. It's not fair to Adam to take what he said about common mistakes and extrapolate it to him talking about all PvErs.

frojack · Feb 27, 2007, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

This is unfair Ensign. Adam didn't say all PvErs do anything. He said many do, and that of the PvE population there are some common mistakes. The kind of PvEr he is referring to is in fact probably best described by the word "many;" I certainly seem to see this sort of thing all the time in alliance battles, something I do every day. It's not fair to Adam to take what he said about common mistakes and extrapolate it to him talking about all PvErs.

I believe the title of the article was 'From PvE to PvP'...

Kakumei · Feb 27, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Man, you guys need to chill out. Words on a website about a video game really shouldn't spark so much emotion like this.

Lonesamurai · Feb 27, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

Man, you guys need to chill out. Words on a website about a video game really shouldn't spark so much emotion like this.

no, usually not, but when its on the Guild Wars home page, then it does spark more than it should!

Kuldebar Valiturus · Feb 27, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

I believe the title of the article was 'From PvE to PvP'...

Yeah, that's why people need to actually read the article instead of just the title and bullet headers.

People are not considering that Adam Sunstrom may have access to ANet's skill usage stats and therefore, might be basing such radical statements as "hailed by many PvErs as the most useful skill in the game, it provides a constant, accessible, and fairly cheap source of healing" on recorded behavior patterns.

Sure, he's editorializing why people use Mending, I suppose they might be using it because they think it's a god awful skill, but more likely they use it because they perceive it to be useful.

Fender · Feb 27, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

meh... its not that bad. I play both, but not too much PvP anymore, and think it is fine. He makes some valid points. It really isn't insulting or condescending, IMO.

Gli · Feb 27, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Mending does see a lot of use in early post-searing. I used it there myself, because at that point I'm usually still scraping to get 8 useful skills on my bar.

EDIT: Oops, posted this in the wrong thread.

Never mind.

isamu kurosawa · Feb 27, 2007, 02:44 PM // 14:44

As a PvE player i found the article to be quite insulting and demeaning. It was obvious he has no experiance in such a transition. while there are alot of bad players in pve, the same is true for pv and any other game.

by grouping eveyone together under one name was sure to cause an uproar, which i believe to be prefectly justifiable.

TRhe only reason i dont pvp is sheer lack of interest in it. If i have nothing to do in game at the moment i'd prefer to help other people than enter pvp, not because of his narrow minded reason.

Rene Saliere · Feb 27, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

In PvE you can't always count on your allies to cover your back, so it's understandable when you bring some defensive skills even if you are a damage dealer.

Right... you know how long a healing Ele is going to last in my Urgoz team?

If you are a Monk, don't cast Fire Magic spells.

Right... you know how long a Monk with Fire skills on his/her bar is going to last in my Urgoz team?

Though most resurrection skills are Monk skills, they're not best used on a Monk. If your Monk begins to cast something that takes six seconds to complete, the enemy team has a huge window to bring all of their damage to bear while one of your Monks is rendered completely useless.

Right... you know what I call a Monk in my Tombs team who wastes their Energy on Rebirth when there are FIVE R/Mo's standing around? Clue: It's rude.

Mending – Hailed by many PvErs as the most useful skill in the game...

Huh? Really? How many? Who are these people?

I want to write to Adam Sunstrom and warn him not to do these things in PvE. Or he'll never make the transition to Post Searing.

Note to beginner PvP or PvE: Bookmark guildwiki.org forever. Go to 'Builds'. Read. Ignore everything Mr Sunstrom says, particularly about PvE.

Kakumei · Feb 27, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote: